20 Oak Sage
20 Lycanthropy
20 Summon Dire Wolf
20 Summon Grizzly
20 Shockwave
1 Werewolf (Prerequisite)
1 Maul (Prerequisite)
1 Raven
1 Poison Creeper
1 Werebear
1 Summon Spirit Wolf
That leaves 4 points. Where would they go? Cyclone Armor? Maul? I could also go lower on Shockwave if you thought it was worth maxing another skill?
Thanks|||12-16 Oak Sage
20 Lycanthropy
18 Summon Dire Wolf
20 Summon Grizzly
8 Shockwave
1 Werewolf
16+ Werebear
12+ Maul
1 Raven
1 Summon Spirit Wolf
You should get close to the above at level 92, then:
Act 2 Cold Merc with Reaper
Any Extra Points will depend upon you and your play style and the equipment you have.|||Interesting. I always struggle with these builds where skills aren’t at 1 or 20 – I’m so used to 1 point wonder utility skills, or maxing skills to get everything from it. What does that make me – a completist?
A few counter questions.
I trust you went a little lower with Oak and Dire Wolf just to save points for other skills? – I know everyone always says its pointless to plan for 110, but I like to anyway
Will I find myself using Maul if I’m spending my time using Shockwave? I’m now questioning whether its worth having summonables at all. If I maxed Shockwave/Maul/Wearbear to make that aspect of the build more powerful, would shockwave deem the summonables less useful than if I were doing all the damage myself?
I forgot what may be the most important piece of information which is that I’m playing hardcore. Currently around level 30, and I always and only play with a Barb who has BO/Shout/Howl, and who has Berserk for his offensive skill. Also should mention that its unlikely we’ll be doing a lot of trading – will likely just be using what we find/craft, and whatever low to medium runewords we can make. Doom is unlikely, but we may find ourselves a Reaper’s Toll.|||I don't know what sort of wealth you've got to pick from, but this is what I was thinking up:
Max: Dire Wolves, Grizzly.
1 pointers, to start with: Lycanthropy, Werebear, Shockwave
Optional point dumps:
-Make sure that Shockwave is at slvl 15 after +skills to maximize stun length (10 seconds). It's really quite powerful.
-Lycanthropy. More life for you and a longer duration... I find that 5 points is usually sufficient.
-Fire Claws. You won't get too much damage out of it, even maxed, but it's the best melee attack engine if you want to beat down Act Bosses with some sort of 4 FPA 120% IAS Phase Blade and some CB items (Gloves & Boots are solid) that you keep in the stash.
-Fury. When you don't really need Shockwave, shift into a powerful wolf and rip monsters apart along with your summons. Requires a decent weapon to be worth it. Fortunately, there's a lot of decent weapons around.
Managing your support (Spirit & Mercenary)
Level 20 skills.
Oak Sage: +125% life
HoW: +153% enhanced damage, +158% attack rating
Mercenaries(assuming level 83)
Might: +200% enhanced damage
Holy Freeze: 53% slow
I like to keep some balance of offensive and defense, so I'll either go with HoW/Holy Freeze or Oak Sage/Might.
HoW/Holy Freeze seems better if you're going to be using a melee skill with your summons.
Oak Sage/Might better if you just want to hang back and play a pure Shockwave Summoner.
The offensive HoW/Might setup seems a little naked and the defensive Oak/Freeze way seems like it would be too turtle-ish.
I didn't really answer the 110 point question too well, did I?|||I take it that your talking about an untwinked char then. That is why I would put a little more points in the Lyc, WB, Maul skills for survivability. Your not gonna have alot of + skills equip - and you have to kill / have damage. It's more solid then being weak or not having points in Lyc, WB, and Maul - i.e. - you'll live longer and kill more monsters.
If your not adverse to trading pgems for items - Aldur's set and a Rhyme shield for resists and CBF (can't be frozen) might work.|||I wouldn't use Oak at all. The problem of a Shockwave summoner is kill speed, not getting killed. Between Lyc, WB and BO you should have enough life.
I like the idea of Shockwave + Berserk, because it eliminates Berserk's weakness much better than both of the normal Barb methods (How and, Warcry).
Another build that combines well with Shockwave is Fire Claws. The benefit of going for FC is that you and your friend will never be competing for weapons. All you need is a six socket weapon and a lot of Shaels, and your friend would want to use whatever high damage weapon you two can find. For physical damage you still have two mercs then + the 1 point conc from the Barb.
FC at level 21 (I count +1 from BC) with two maxed synergies does well above 2500 damage per hit. At 4 or 5 fpa you really need to have some luck to do better with Maul. It's not also unlikely you can make a Lore in a semi-decent pelt or find an ok rare pelt. At level 25 FC with 2 max syn is nearing the 4000 damage range. It's all fire damage, but you are not in a position where you have to worry about immunities, and even if you can't kill you'll still be a contributing factor thanks to Shockwave.
For me MP is all about helping each other out while not degrading one character to a walking aura or buff-slave, and I think Shockwave/FC bear + Berserker makes a nice team in that sense.
Good luck.|||Alright, a lot to digest here�.
First of all, I see that the stun duration of shockwave no longer increases past level 15, so at most, I�d bring that to level 14 considering I�d have Battle Command from the Barb at all times. The old skill planner I was using didn�t show this.
I really don�t think anyone is going to talk me into ditching Oak Sage. I know the life bonus isn�t that amazing, and I know with Lycanthropy, WearBear and BO, that life shouldn�t be a problem, but still, I�m playing hardcore, and I want to do everything I can to ensure I stay alive. Plus it�ll help the whole party, and I think with BO, it�ll stay alive more than usual.
If I keep Oak Sage, I could probably just max fire claws and two of the synergies, but I wouldn�t have enough for an alternative attack (or Summons), and fire immunes seem to be the most common. I don�t just want to stand around and wait for the Barb and Mercs to kill the fire immunes.
Here are the questions I now have:
1. Can my summons kill fast enough to rely almost solely on them for damage?
2. Does Shockwave stun everything? I�m guessing not champion/unique/boss type monsters, but everything else? What about physical immunes�. as I�m guessing Shockwave is a physical attack?
3. What is the radius of shockwave?
4. One thought on the summons was that they�d allow me to stand back, while also being a meat shield, but if everything is stunned from shockwave, is this not really a concern?
5. With Oak and BO (as well as Shockwave), if maxed Grizzly with just 1 point in Dire Wolf, would the Grizzly survive ok?
6. Though Howl is a synergy of Berserk, do you think with Shockwave, the Barb won�t need to use it?
7. Assuming everything is stunned via shockwave, how does the killing speed of the one Grizzly compare to that of the three Dire Wolves?
8. What do you think of my latest plan?
20 Oak Sage
20 Lycanthropy
20 WereBear
20 Maul
20 Grizzly
5 Shockwave
1 Raven
1 Poison Creeper|||R
Quote:
e: If I were to plan a Shock Summoner with all 110 points, how would I allocate them
12-16 Oak Sage
20 Lycanthropy
18 Summon Dire Wolf
20 Summon Grizzly
8 Shockwave
1 Werewolf
16+ Werebear
12+ Maul
1 Raven
1 Summon Spirit Wolf
You should get close to the above at level 92, then:
Act 2 Cold Merc with Reaper
Any Extra Points will depend upon you and your play style and the equipment you have.
1. This will keep you alive. Yes put 18 in Dire Wolf because if your Griz dies you will have a mob on top of you while wielding a crappy weapon = game over in HC. Griz is better than wolves !!! Griz will live long - if he ever goes down - get him up fast! With wolves you'll constantly be casting them and be distracted by casting so much you'll die in the confusion.
2. Shockwave will not stun Bosses.
3. Use Shockwave and Barb uses howl if he's mobbed.
4. No - your summons won't kill everything in hell - not even in act 3 hell. So beef up that Werebear! 20 Lyc -- 16+ WB --12+ Maul.
5. Shockwave at level 8 is great. If you get some skill equip - you'll be fine.
6. For Hardcore - Shockwave - let Holy Freeze Merc/Griz/Ravens go first. Shockwave again - and then join the fray.
7. With less skill equip, no torch/anni, definately put no less than 12 and no more than 16 points in Heart of the Oak.
8. Your latest plan is solid.
just suggestions:
Drop the Poison Creeper and put a few points in Dires - Like 5 -7
Put Oak at 12pts - you'll have to cast often no matter what. But you won't have to cast Griz often - so it will work good for
you. Remember Griz is better than Oak. Griz offers alot of defense if you keep him up.
Get a good fast weapon with some damage.|||Quote:
R
1. This will keep you alive. Yes put 18 in Dire Wolf because if your Griz dies you will have a mob on top of you while wielding a crappy weapon = game over in HC. Griz is better than wolves !!! Griz will live long - if he ever goes down - get him up fast! With wolves you'll constantly be casting them and be distracted by casting so much you'll die in the confusion.
2. Shockwave will not stun Bosses.
3. Use Shockwave and Barb uses howl if he's mobbed.
4. No - your summons won't kill everything in hell - not even in act 3 hell. So beef up that Werebear! 20 Lyc -- 16+ WB --12+ Maul.
5. Shockwave at level 8 is great. If you get some skill equip - you'll be fine.
6. For Hardcore - Shockwave - let Holy Freeze Merc/Griz/Ravens go first. Shockwave again - and then join the fray.
7. With less skill equip, no torch/anni, definately put no less than 12 and no more than 16 points in Heart of the Oak.
8. Your latest plan is solid.
just suggestions:
Drop the Poison Creeper and put a few points in Dires - Like 5 -7
Put Oak at 12pts - you'll have to cast often no matter what. But you won't have to cast Griz often - so it will work good for
you. Remember Griz is better than Oak. Griz offers alot of defense if you keep him up.
Get a good fast weapon with some damage.
ok, good point - I am kinda back and pretty close to what you suggested
Why do you recommend no more than 16 in Oak? I remember there was a bug where it wouldn't work higher than 20, but that was fixed, right?|||I'll just talk about Oak Sage and Heart of the Wolverine primarily with the other skills to give some insight.
Reasoning (mine)
1. Oak is best for Hard Core. You want life and you want to survive. I usually put 2 to 4 points in Oak Sage on USEAST Standard for life in a build that requires alot of strength or dex ... Or ... 2 to 4 Points in Heart of the Wolverine if I need alot of Attack Rating/Damage. Hard Core is safer with Oak Sage for Life in my humble opinion.
2. Any Spirit will die faster (much faster) than a good Griz. You will have to recast the spirit. It will give more life and just live a little longer if its 10 points or more. For your build ( using what you find or craft). It is worthwhile to have - but in your situation - Lycanthropy Maxed is 10 times more important than any spirit. Points in Vitality and having plus to max life is more important than a Spirit for Hard Core. Angelics (ring/ammy) is more important than an Oak Sage. So put at least 4 points in it by level 50 nightmare and make sure Lyc is Maxed!
3. You can do fine with 4 points in Oak Sages if you have plus life charms, Angelics, plus life gear, and lotsa points in vitality. Thats what I would do. But with gear you find I'd go 12-14 pts.
Are you on USEAST Std??
Good Luck!
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